Maintain 3,200 Til Established on the Localizer

Got a great question from a reader by the name of Dutch today. He asked:

“When on IFR, and receiving final instructions for an approach, the controller gives you heading and altitude until FAF or glideope intercept.

Do you recommend to read back these numbers as well instead of just replying “… Cleared for the approach”? After all, all those numbers are part of the procedure.”

Here is my answer:

Hello Dutch,

Glad you found us. My default answer to your questions is, read back the controller’s full instructions. Your question raises a question in my mind. What type of approach are you flying and where are you relative to the final approach course when the controller gives you his instructions? Here’s why I ask.

If you are taking radar vectors from ATC to a final approach course, you are not established on the published instrument approach until you have met the criteria for being established on the final approach course segment. Therefore, the numbers on the instrument approach do not apply to your current situation. You have to comply with whatever the approach controller says until you are established on a published segment of the approach.

Where Are You?

If you are already on a published segment of the approach, such as the final approach course, the initial approach course, or a feeder route, then yes, the numbers on that part of the procedure probably apply. However, and this is a big however, an approach controller can almost always modify how he wants you fly that segment.

For example, very few approach procedures specify the speed you should fly while on a segment of the approach. ATC may specify a particular speed to fly that is not published. Many published approaches have “at or above” altitudes for a particular segment. ATC may modify the altitude you should maintain on these segments. As you can see, there are many times where published approach procedures may be modified by ATC.

Read it Back in Full

For all these reasons, my default answer is, read back the controller’s full instructions, regardless of the instrument approach procedure. For read back you should not only say the numbers, but also the units or modifiers. For example, if the controller says, “Turn right heading 110. Maintain 3,200 til established on the localizer, cleared for the ILS Runway 8,” your read back should be “Right heading 110. 3,200 til established on the loc, cleared ILS Runway 8.” Pilots who say only the numbers are setting themselves up for trouble: “180, 100, 5000, cleared for the approach.” Good question, Dutch. Thank you for asking.

A Few Notes to Loyal Readers and Subscribers now has over 650 subscribers who have access to my newsletter, the Aircraft Radio Simulator test bed, and other radio games and simulations. If you haven’t already joined the crowd and want to get on the inside, go here.

Where have I been? Long-time followers of this website may have noticed that I have been away for awhile. I have been putting the finishing touches on my new book Radio Mastery for Pilots. This book is a complete, illustrated course on how to talk to air traffic control when flying VFR. It takes you from the radio basics–how to speak clearly and succinctly–to exactly what to say in any situation. From uncontrolled airspace to VFR flight in Class E, D, C, and B, you’ll learn it all.

While the book covers radio work in great detail and in exact accordance with ATC standards, the tone is light, humorous, and very readable. There’s no sense in reading another boring textbook, right?

Keep this website bookmarked, and check back often for the announcement that the book is out, which should be very soon. If you would like personal, advance notice of the book’s arrival, join our Insiders for absolutely no cost and no obligation by clicking here.

{ 2 comments… read them below or add one }

Clarence October 7, 2012 at 10:24 pm

Great answers and great resource. Feels like my ground school instructor at my fingertips! Thanks much


JeffKanarish October 8, 2012 at 2:08 pm


Glad to help!



Leave a Comment

Previous post:

Next post: